Wrong oil used in multitronic (English thread)

[Desmond0313]

Hi All!

I have a 2005 A4 B7 2.0 TDI with MT transmission that I bought in 2016.

Last year the TCM needed repairs because it was switching to Sport mode by itself.

When my mechanic took out the TCM and drained the oil, he noticed the oil coming out of the gearbox was red.

As far as I know, CVT oils are always a yellow-ish colour, and red ATF is only used in traditional automatic gearboxes (like Tiptronic).

So we came to the conclusion that the gearbox was filled with the wrong type of oil, which I know is a big no-no with CVTs.

We have no idea for how long the car was running with the wrong oil because there is no service history, but the car wasn't really used much before I bought it, sometimes it sat for 1-2 months.

We drained all the oil that we could and refilled with Febi CVT oil, but the oil coming out of the overflow hole was still red colour, so we changed it again in August last year, and my mechanic said it was still not the same colour coming out of the overflow hole as the oil was in the can.

I'm booked in for another oil change in 2 weeks, and with every oil change so far the gearbox behaviour always improved a bit. Getaways from standstill are more direct now, and the violent shaking I had between 1500-2000 RPM when accelerating also went away with the 2nd change. However it still shakes under 30 km/h when coming to a stop and it feels like it releases the clutch "too late" because when I come to a complete stop the RPM drops below idle for a second or so. Also there is a distinctive "whining" sound when you put it in Reverse, that sound hasn't changed so far with oil changes.

I did multiple Adaptation procedures and currently these are in the MWBs:

Forward clutch: 0.335 A (in a previous adaptation it went to 0.345 A)
Reverse clutch: 0.295 A

When finishing the adaptation both blocks show "ADP OK", but as soon as I cycle the ignition it goes to "ADP is Running" again, but based on what I read on this forum, that is normal.

Unfortunately I don't know the 3-letter gearbox code because the current gearbox was bought used when the factory one failed at the previous owner. All I know it is a 01J with 7-plate clutch from factory.

This is what I could read out from the TCM:

System Description: V30 01J 2.0I PD RdW
Hardware number: 01J 927 156 HT
Software number: 8E4 910 155A
Software version: 0010

My question would be, how many times should the oil be changed to get rid of all the false oil? What are the chances that the gearbox suffered permanent damage?

Sorry for the long write-up but I wanted to clear up everything.

Thank you very much,
Dan

[Horch]

Hello,

the total filling volume of the gearbox is approx. 7,5 liters. With a standard fluid change you only drain approx. 4,5 liters. That results in only 60% fresh fluid, or in other words 40% remaining wrong fluid in the gearbox. See also [External Link Removed for Guests].

At least you should have 4 fillings with the result of approx. 2,5% remaining wrong fluid in the gearbox.

Probable damages to the gearbox depend on what wrong fluid was used. The most probable damage is to the set of clutch disks of the input shaft, the drive chain and the variators surface.

Best practice in this case is to remove and open the gearbox to assess probable damages, exchange clutch disks, clean gearbox and valve body, replace drive chain, suction jet pump and revamp variators. Depending on the actual milage, that will become due after approx. 150-180 tkm anyway. Not a real big job, spare parts are approx. 750€, but special tools are required and some experience.

If you have no pain to drive 900 km, I recommend to visit Coupe110 to take care of your gearbox.

Regards,

Horch

[Desmond0313]

Hi Horch,

Thanks for your very useful info.

I think I'm not going to jump into a major gearbox overhaul straight away because the CVT mechanism seems to be working fine, there is no feel of slippage even under hard acceleration, so maybe the variators and the chain is OK. It's only the clutch control that feels off, but even that is not on a level where the car is undrivable by any means, it just sometimes feels jerky when moving off or coming to a stop. Also there is a weird feeling of "disconnection" when I let off the gas pedal for coasting, when I lift off the gas while driving I can feel a little jerk and the RPM drops by about 50, then when I press the gas again I feel another little jerk and RPM goes back up by 50. It sort of feels like the clutch disengages by a tiny amount when letting off the gas. At lower speeds (below 30 km/h) this is much more noticable, the car can "jump" quite big when stepping on the gas.

Anyways according to your comment I'm going to change the oil 2 more times and do the clutch adaptation both times to see if the values improve.

Would it be recommended to also change the external filter? Does it have a service interval? The car has 230 tkm and there is no evidence anywhere that the filter was ever changed.

Thanks,
Dan

[Desmond0313]

Hi,

Today the 3rd oil change was done.

My mechanic left the car with the drain plug unplugged for a whole night, he said 5 liters of old fluid came out.

He also told me the oil was a very dark, almost black color, and had a foul smell. Not burnt, but just an unpleasant smell. Is that normal? It didn't contain any metallic pieces.

After the oil change I took it for an adaptation drive, here are the before and after MWB values (7-plate clutch gearbox from factory, gearbox number is unknown because it's a replacement gearbox from a junkyard by the previous owner...):

Forward clutch adaptation before oil change: 0.350 A
Reverse clutch adaptation before oil change: 0.310 A

Forward clutch adaptation after oil change: 0.345 A
Reverse clutch adaptation after oil change: 0.305 A

The values improved by just a teeny-tiny bit, but based on what I read here on the forums those values are still pretty high even for a 7-plate gearbox.

I haven't tested the car properly yet but the "jerkyness" of the clutch seems to have improved a bit.

Could it be that I have the problem with the teflon-ring thing being worn in the jet pump as described in this thread? --> [External Link Removed for Guests]

Thanks,
Dan

[Horch]

Hello,

usually the teflon ring of the oil pipe is not the problem. The root cause is the bushing of the suction jet pump. To change the suction jet pump you have to remove and to disassemble the whole gear box.

The black color of your fluid is most probably caused by excessive wear of the clutch disks. If you remove the gear box, they should also be exchanged.

Regards,

Horch

[Desmond0313]

Hi Horch,

Thanks for your answer.

Is there a good step-by-step guide for taking apart the multitronic, and part numbers which are needed (e.g. tools, clutch pack, pump bushing)?

Also is there a trustworthy place from where I could order the parts I need and ships to EU countries?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Dan

[Horch]

You will get all documents related to your car for very small money from [External Link Removed for Guests]. Approx. 7€ per hour, but in your required language. All documents are printable. However, I recommend to take a 900 km drive to Coupe110. He is a real expert and has all required equipment and special tools. Reliable source for multitronic parts is only Audi. As a member of this board you can order parts via Sascha of AVP Autoland with up to 35% discount.

You have also the option to do it on your own. If you download the workshop manuals, exchanging of the suction jet pump is not a real big job. Only the input shaft is quite tricky and requires special equipment. But you can send the input shaft to Coupe110 or Lubusch. The clutch set will be exchanged and adjusted and sent back to you. May take approx. one week.

It´s up to you, what you are opting for. Part numbers can be provided by User Mops, if you send him the VIN.

Regards,

Horch

[Desmond0313]

Wow, thanks a lot for the very detailed info! I will check erWin out.

First I want to be done with university, and only then jump into this project in the summer, given that the gearbox doesn't develop any major problems in the meantime.

I will definitely come back to this thread when I have any updates!

Once again thank you very much for the fast and detailed help!

Regards,
Dan

[Horch]

Good luck for your exams and for your gearbox as well. In case of trouble you will know how to find us.

Cheers,

Horch